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Moving the project forward

Nov 29, 2007 at 6:34 PM
Hey guys - I'm thinking about what it will take to make this project interesting and exciting so that we will actually work on it and perhaps draw some other folks.

Here are my thoughts on some changes to make to get this project moving.

  • Use TDD going forward on everything - this should greatly increase the quality. Doppler 3 has a number of annoying bugs and instability which this will kill rather quickly
  • Move the project to VS2008 and .NET 3.5 - Developers want to work on the latest coolest stuff and if we do this we will keep the project interesting. After all this project (it seems to me) exists for us and only for the public as a side issue. There are many good podcatchers and iTunes (and now Zune) have most of the market.
  • Use Model-View-Presenter for the UI - this makes it more testable
  • Use Workflow for the process of downloading podcasts
  • Use WCF 3.5 to do the RSS work
  • Consider using future .NET extensions (such as the Internet Service Bus) as an optional add-in that support social networking aspects like which podcasts are the most popular on Doppler.


My suggestion for project roadmap would be to
  • Start by writing specs for Doppler 4 so we all know where we are going.
  • Clean up the Doppler 3 code base making it highly modular so that we can more easily migrate elements of the solution without destablizing everything
  • Develop tests for Doppler 3 to get it to a reasonable (50%?) level of test coverage using VS tests

I'm thinking about spending a great deal of time on this code as a project for my Tech-Ed 2008 talk but for that to work I will have to be very forward looking. I could do this work by forking the code base and just going forward on my own but I really want to learn how to make this work as a community project.

My experience thus far on community projects is that there is a lot of talk and very little action. I can understand that most people are pretty busy with their day job and can't put the effort in on a side project. That is why I want to make it worth your while to participate. The payback is that you will improve your skill as a developer and/or architect by participating in an interesting project built on .NET 3.5 using TDD do drive the process.

Can we do this? Are you with me? What thoughts do you have?
Nov 29, 2007 at 8:33 PM
I have no problem with going to VS2008 and 3.5. except for the fact that I don't have an MSDN subscription. I could use the express but that could limit some of the other things like VS tests. But with that, I think that maybe using xUnit.Net or even nUnit night be a better option then anyone can run the tests as well.

I like the idea of moving to WCF, attended an MSDN event that dave bost was part of (who was also looking to be part of this project) and really liked what WCF has to offer. Plus since i haven't used it yet, ill be able to get my feet wet.

I have a zune and love it, but i do not use my zune software to download my podcasts, I have used doppler for a couple years now and liked that it basically did what I wanted.

off topic, i wish that codeplex had the option to email you when ever any new topic or reply was made. I would rather have it like a email list since i check email all day long.


I am willing to give any free time that i may have, saving some for CCNetConfig (shameless plug)
Nov 29, 2007 at 11:30 PM
Ok - for unit tests perhaps we have to go with something else. I can deal with that. I do want to get some very high test coverage though. I'd like to see the new source above 90%.
Nov 30, 2007 at 9:53 AM
Same here, VS2008 and 3.5 would have my preference. WCF and TDD are new to me, but it sounds interesting. Overall, I fully subscribe to your proposal, Ron. Really good ideas.

I'm getting slowly up and running again (I'll post about the reasons in a separate thread) but I'm really exited about your ideas!
Nov 30, 2007 at 2:38 PM
Edited Dec 2, 2007 at 9:14 AM
I like all the ideas you have suggested and will be happy to work on these things.
I have been using TDD for about 2 years on and off with NUnit and NMock. However I recently saw a presentation by Ben Hall from the MbUnit project and it did look very interesting. Also for mocking I am tending towards Rhino.Mocks recently. I like the fact that it doesn't rely on strings for setting up expectations.

WCF and WF are new to me. I have had a few basic overviews of them and am keen to get my hands dirty.

I've done a couple of projects using either MVC or MVP and I enjoyed them both, it made Separation of Concerns and testing a lot easier.

I don't have an IPod and I still don't think that Zunes are available over here in the UK, so everything I download I burn onto CDRWs and play in my car stereo. Which means that I don't use ITunes or whatever software comes with the Zune. I am currently using uTorrent to download the PWOP podcasts and attempting to use the GetRight Podcast Downloader for everything else. Although I don't seem to ever get anything from it.

Camalot -> I am not sure if I am somehow using a different version of codeplex, or if they updated recently, but I am able to check a box that makes the discussions send emails to me when there are replies.
edit I see that email notifications cannot be setup for new discussions. I have subscribed to the RSS feed for the discussion section of the project and changes do seem to arrive, but a while after the fact. /edit

I tried using Doppler on my Vista 64 box (my main PC that downloads my podcasts) and didn't get very far with it. I am looking forward to being able to help produce a version of Doppler that does all of the things Ron talks about and works on my 64bit machine.
Dec 3, 2007 at 3:15 PM

AidenMontgomery wrote:
Camalot -> I am not sure if I am somehow using a different version of codeplex, or if they updated recently, but I am able to check a box that makes the discussions send emails to me when there are replies.
edit I see that email notifications cannot be setup for new discussions. I have subscribed to the RSS feed for the discussion section of the project and changes do seem to arrive, but a while after the fact. /edit


Yes there is no notifications for new discussions, and the Rss feeds do not include the "private" discussions